People have lately been visiting the test site, which I use to perfect things before implementing them here. They visited because of the recent shoutbox trouble, but I got some positive feedback about the lay-out there.
Thus I made this topic, to get a better idea of the whole big picture(as Secundo would say).

Futhermore, I'd like to say that most of the programming and developing of the test site is thanks to Hreasvelgr.:handjeklap:

Now, I must ad that the work is unfinished, and it will have some difficulty getting it all right, but if we all work on it and are willing to make an effort it should work out!


EDIT
Ok, here's the To Do List, good luck!:

Need improvement:
- Reply background? forminput
- Smilie background? tablefill
- Button background? Codebuttons

Need changing:
- Smilies: quack.jpg, sinister.jpg, ahh.jpg, aww.jpg, Headcrab.gif, thief.png, doctor.png
These smilies have the old background colour en need to have a transparant one.

- Buttons: Closed, Options, Warning levels, pips, the small envelops icons at the bottom of search results.

- The entire arcade! :o OMG, it's still in the old style...

- Button swapping: Help, Members, Search and Calendar on top of the site with the ones Alexa designed.

- The log-in screen: It's kinda malfunctioning, the options are to far to the right. It works fine on the test site.

- Moderation options: Eh... let's make them a different colour then red.

- Fast Reply button: We need one... one that's not out of place

I'm willing to do anything that's in my power to help get this new layout up! :mash:

Aye!

If you'll need some more help with graphics, gimme a call! ;)

But anyway, I feel this layout looks very good! Better we'd put it before BG&E 2 release, if possible.

Would the people who voted for "different lay-out" and "keep this one" please motivate their answers?

I'll go with the crowd I guess, I'll vote for the new lay out ^_^

What's first to be done?

First off, I need to copy the code of the lay-out of the test forum to this forum. Sees if everything works properly.

This code can be found in "Manage style sheets" in the admin CP. If I'm not mistaking, this should directly change everything here, but it could be that there are some bugs in the lay-out which didn't show in the test forum.

That being said, I'd rather wait until I have a day off(which is next sunday), until I implement it. Not that I don't think you guys can handle it, it's just that I know about the ins and outs, and I'm most experienced in program language of the active admins(At least, I think).

Then, I'd like for you guys to help me with possible misplaced buttons and other stuff that's not quite right. Also, I work in Firefox, so if IE users(Alexa?) could say what looks wrong in their browsers, that would be nice.

Perhaps I want to implement a cursor of our own, but that might be annoying...

P.S.: I forgot, I might not have this pc available sunday, but my laptop will be. And I'm transferring files necessary to a portable harddisk as we speak, so it should be fine. But it might be a factor...

I voted for the old layout, I thought the new one is less synoptical. But if you increase the contrast between background and text, it's okay.

Reaper, the new layout works fine with IE 7, but I remember that in IE 6 those half transparent images were not loading properly (like if they were on white background, I mean). But apart from that, I think it works okay, you only need to use something better than IE 6 :P

Well, I guess that should be fine, people should upgrade their IE version I guess...

Oh and XX Humanoid, thanks for the reply, I'll keep your comment in mind ;)

Ok, so Sunday we're gonna try implementing it?

I use IE as well and nothing seems wrong over here.

My apologies, I was going to implement it today, but something came up.

A girl I knew, who studies in Sweden, came back to Holland, and me and some other friends of her went picknicking. Perhaps it's not much of an excuse, but for what it's worth, we had fun.

I'll guess... Tuesday is my next open day. I'll also try to produce a battlebanner for the current battle before then.

Ahh, no problem ^_^ Glad you had fun! :D

Really wish I would've stumbled upon this earlier. I voted on a different layout myself because of a technicality default somewhere inside my inverted brain. I know it's entirely my fault, but the new layout is horrendously incomplete. And while I'd love to see us switch over, I feel that certain things really should be fixed and I'd hope that you have a plan for it, Reaper. I mean, hey, I'm trusting you.

Of course, the things I'm looking at could be deceptively simple to repair. The "Hillyan News" and the "How to annoy Pey'j" boxes should have some sort of background because the font color blends into the site background to the point of near unreadability. I remember trying to code in backgrounds for those boxes but for some reason every time I tried it just didn't take.

I'm also looking at the affiliate box. It's black for me. Don't know what happened there; did you do that?

And then a minor note would be that the background for normal posts should be darkened a bit. That's probably the easiest thing in the world to fix, though.

HOWEVER. It's my fault for disappearing in the first place and showing up so late in the game now. So do me a favor and go along with whatever you were planning on doing and I'll spring by when I get some freetime to see what's what in the new forum order. I really just wanted to pop in and say 'allo to y'all, and sorry for disappearing, and let you know that I do check in every once in awhile even if it is not nearly often enough. Good luck, Reaper. I'll help if I can once things get underway.

And I am loving the new topbar. Made me smile for twenty minutes straight, it did.

Cheerio.

I'm just glad you posted again :) Thanks for all you've done for the layout! ^_^

We should write somewhere on the layout, who made it.

Hreas, there's no need for apologies, you're the one who did most of the work, but like most things around here, it never got finished.

Thanks for your trust, but I don't have much of a plan :unsure: It was more that other decided it would be nice to have a lay-out change. I knew of it's the lack of completion, so I was less enthusiastic.

However, members haves swayed me to the other side, so I decided "what the hell, we could always switch back".
The plan I now have is as follows, I implement it, incomplete as it is and work out the problems as I go along. With a reasonably active forum at the moment, it should be easier to have mistakes pointed out, and fixing them. We have some artists that could provide the necessary backgrounds and buttons. I will call upon them to help me with that, since I'm not really good a digital art.

As for the programming, I feel I have enough skill to get the job done. I'm a quick study and the internet should help me overcome difficult problems.

Now what do you guys say, after Hreasvelgr's comments? Let's do it?

Let's do it!

Rum for all! :arr: :bottomsup: and err....Let's do it!

Here goes nothing! :ahh:

EDIT: Ok, here's a few things that need fixing:

Backgrounds for:
- Polls(I changed it to the background of regular posts now but I donno)
- fast reply
- Normal Replies
- Banner(the greens skirts on the side)
- Quoted stuff
- Affiliate box
- Written texts?(XX Humanoid commented on this)
- The smaller buttons for the fast reply(add reply, more options, close fast reply)
Some of the background changes more than just one thing, like the small buttons for the fast reply.

Buttons for:
- New topic
- fast reply
- new poll
- add reply
- closed
- AIM
- MSN
- Profile
- PM
- Email
- Report
- Delete
- Edit
- Quote
- To Top
I don't what happened to the SAC buttons of the test site, I look into that, but I didn't really like them anyway :P

Banners for:
- Affiliates box
- Topics(We need a bigger one, or at least something that doesn't repeat itself)
- The banner below topic titles

Now, I'd like to finish the lay-out before my school starts again, which is on 8 September. BUT, I'd rather finish it before that. If things don't work out, the old lay-out is coming back.
As said before, I'll take of programming, but I need your help on graphic design. I also need opinions, well constructed with arguments. A simple "I don't like it" will not suffice.

I care a lot for this, and it will cost time to get it right, so let's, for once, show that we can finish something!

Remember, it's the SAC lay-out we're going for:

Change to the new layout.

I don’t know if you want to keep the camara icons I made, but if you do I think I still have the original files so I can make them so they don’t have green around them.
...............................
I didn’t look at this topic before because I just thought it was one phill made about streamlining the forums or whatever it was called.
...........................


I think we should have new pips (the little things under user titles).
I think pearls would look good what do you guys think?
I could make a prototype.

One thing that I think sucks about the current look is the background color (not the background image, the color is underneath it) it’s chartreuse and it looks really ugly when it loads. It should be changed to a gray blue like the background image

Yeah sry, but it kinda hurt my eyes. The answer stuff is still the old style and....yeah, I don't like the new design very much.

Well, the thing about the text colour I can change, as well as the background colour.

As for the opinion "I don't like it" coming from Ralexand, what the crap... I'm sorry, but even though it's imcomplete, it's still an improvement from the old style. Off course I value your opinion, but saying "I don't like it" really doesn't help.

Say what you don't like and why...

Oh and GAP, that of the camera's and the pearls would be nice. I say, give it a go. If it's not too much work off course.

Cause I'm thinking perhaps making small Icons for the Main section, like in the S-A-C Interface. Off course, each icon must have two values, like the camera.

Ze Fast Reply is missing! I shall make a new button for it and customize some other buttons! Who has the original button files? I'll gladly take a look, just tell me how to make them semi-transparent :P

GIF files can be made transparent, as can PNG files(which are easier to use IMO), but PNG doesn't maintain it's transparency in Internet Explorer in my experience. You need a program to save transparency

Let's see...



Jup, that did it! I used a trial version of Paint shop pro, but trust me... you don't want to use it. I suggest you find a better one.

And what original files do you mean? :huh:

Nonono, Reaper, you don't get me. I can do that kinda half-assed transparency myself. I mean, how the hell did you guys made that gradienting transparency on those grids and stuff? Like, how one parts are more transparent than others?
And I assume the author of these buttons used Photoshop, so may I get original .PSD files with all the layers?

You mean this one?


Boy... er... Girl, I don't know... Hreas made it. Like I said before, image design isn't my thing. I can do a little, but others can do it way better :P

So I guess you should PM him about it.

Wait, I think I figured it out, or partially anyway(I keep saying partially :rolleyes: ).


It's called Alpha transparency, and is inapplicable on PNG images. Perhaps that will help you...

That isn’t working for me, I see white around the image, Just do something that blends with the background in a gif.

Hey Reaper could you tell me how many different pip levels do we have here, and what one has the most pips?

Don’t expect anything from me until the 4th or 5th of august I’ll be away until then.

White as is in rectangle white, or as in a small blurry white mess. Cause the last is what I see in Firefox and IE :o

As for the Ranks, there are 10 ranks, Universal Iris Chief has the most pips(that'd be me, Denden and some other loons). So 10 pearls for me :D
And take your time, there's no rush. Just don't make promises you can't keep, cause I had more than my share of those.

I get a white box.

I never do that, I may take months (though I don’t expect that) but I always do what I say I will.

Strange... Oh well, like you said GIF is the way to go, that works for everyone.

And I have trust that you will GAP, I'm glad you're willing to play your part :D

I’ve got IE 6 on 7 it probably looks fine.

Holy moly, Reaper. I'm male. After this long I'd think that'd have become evident at some point. Androgyny does not bode well for my reputation.

Relaxand, what exactly don't you like. I might not be completely content in my own work, but I do take pride in the fact that it's actually been implemented even if without my help. I'd like to think maybe there's a way we could make everyone like it?

Update your explorer, GAP. Or better yet, get Firefox. And GIF is definitely not the way to go. My little topbars there a PNGs using an alpha-channel transparency and actually I did make them in Paint Shop Pro 9. It's the cheap knockoff of Photoshop CS2 but has a more user-friendly interface if you ask me.

Alexa, I either didn't save the .psd in the first place or lost it when my laptop crashed. My memory is terrible, so I don't know which, but the point is the same in either case. And besides, I didn't use more than one or two layers on them, so it doesn't really apply. The gradient tansperency isn't difficult to do, though. If you can get it to have the gradient in photoshop (or paintshop), all you need to do is save it as a PNG with an alpha-channel transparency. This basically just tells the program that you want it to look in implementation like it does in conceptualization. And the reason I don't use GIFs is because they have a terrible quality in the first place, and that they can't do gradient transparency.

Now, I'm not content with my own new-topic, new-reply, blah-blah-blah or whatever poor SAC imitations. Those were never actually meant to, y'know, go into implementation. They were more to test a theory than to be officially. So if somebody wants to replace them with something better look, just let me know. Otherwise I might get an inkling to put in the time and effort it takes to instill some real shiny ones that function better.

Now what else did I want to address?

Oh, hey Reaper. It looks like you found the BG I was trying to implement behind the news box in the first place. I like it, but the gradient is thrown off by its size. That can probably be fixed just by increasing the size of the graphic itself, or do you feel that we need something entirely different? I'm not going to take an opinion on how well it actually works there because this is the first time I've seen someone manage to implement it.

And also. I'm just noticing, but it looks like that same graphic has wormed its way into the post page. If you go to make a new post, and look down to where the thread recap is, you'll notice a visual artifact in the texture behind the text. It's because it's using the same graphic as in the news post. Don't know how that turned up, but that might want to get changed to the same BG as behind normal posts.

And good work eliminating the green sides by the top banner.

One more thing. Reaper, could you please get an updated list of everything that needs to be done. Probably one of the reasons this project seemed so intimidating in the first place is because I was always trying to do it all on my own and all in one fell swoop of action. I like the idea of doing one thing at a time, and the convenience of having a list to neatly pick through.

I have tomorrow off, and while I do like to keep busy I just might drop one or two buttons on y'all.

Word out and thanks for picking up where I left off. You're all awesome. Fan-freaking-tastic.

*EDIT: Also, I want to mention one more time my idea to darken the BG for posts a bit? Whaddya think?

Personally, I like the SAC buttons, I think their nicely colored and stylish. If you have the time to make another batch of buttons i'd be curious to see them but for now I do think the SAC buttons are cool.

I really like the News Topic BG but it sure is funny how it got behind the topic recap area...that's pretty random :blink: I'll see if I can fix that.

Edit: sigh, very sorry Reaper but I got rid of the News Topic BG by mistake, and I would fix it but I lost track of where the News Topic BG section is in the Style Sheet, where is it?

I can't really say how i'd feel about a darker BG for posts till I see it but my initial thinking is that it will turn the text a lil too bright.

Did I say you're female? :huh: Well, I knew you are male, so it must be a typ-o...

Perhaps the long hair of avatar threw me off somewhere.

ANYWAY, I could make a list of things that need to be done, that shouldn't be to hard. Oh, and is everyone ok, if I make Hraes admin, for a while? I could really use the help...

I knew about the SAC-buttons being temporary, so I wasn't to sad when it didn't work at first. But now it does... oh well :P

About the background, I don't really know a good way to increase the size of images without losing quality... *tries* Well.... that was quite easy really :P

And I had noticed the background in the post page, I'll try to fix it. But I'll first try to fix the reply screen itself, then I'll look into that. It's not that annoying, but it will need to be fixed.

Thanks for the kind words, and I'd like to thank you again for your smashing design.
I'll work on the "To Do list" today, but first I gotta lunch. I kinda programmed until 4.00 this morning, then went to bed, woke up late, and got programming again. Gosh, I'm such a nerd...

Do this, he'll be a plenty more help than I am :P

EDIT: On second thought, there's nothing stopping me from doing this myself... so thus has happened. :)

Eya, Hrae, it would be very nice if you also did a fast reply button, and I will take care of icons on them, how's that sound? And what font did you use on these three buttons?

I can also make some pixelling icon job, like those pips, for example. Also, making smaller buttons (options, to top and the like) would be a job for me. I'll whip up some examples if you wanna.

That'd be great soldier! All for the revolution! (By the way, wow, I'm impressed with the speed all of this! :o)