This is a discussion we've been having in the BG&E Revolution's One-Year Anniversary!!! topic. Go read that first, since that's where I first posted, plus it's just an awesome topic. :P

The following is a response I made to G.A.Pster, and basically outlines what I'm interested in for a Revolution Website:

Good point, but it's always difficult to gauge how much money might come in for donations. I'd be willing to give a fair amount, once I get a job (which will be soon). And $7 a month is dirt-cheap if you're looking for paying hosting places.

1) Focus
2) Organization
3) Room for design
4) Professionality
5) Attractive power

You have to understand that I'm talking about this website from the perspective of having run one for over a year now, and we've made a number of mistakes. The number one mistake being: I assumed that the content of the website and the idea behind it would be enough to attract visitors. I was very wrong. While I, along with probably most people here, get genuinely excited by something's potential, most human beings are only concerned with the final product. Bottom line: most people who visit here will honestly be turned off by the Google ads, lack of design focus or originality.

I'm NOT saying that the people who've worked on this forum haven't done a good job! Exactly the opposite! But this place only offers so much room to work in. A forum is a forum, and we have design and organization constraints. With a website, we would have unlimited creative power, and the abilities of the fine minds behind this place would be given so much more freedom.

Just try and put yourself in the mind of an ordinary internet-goer for a moment: specifically, they don't tend to spend a lot of time on the internet, or at least not on forums and such. They might be a fan of BGE, they might not. So they're surfing, they somehow come along this site. If they came here today, they might possibly be interested for a few minutes, but more likely they would move on. While you or I would want to dig deeper into the forum and read the posts and topics and such to find out what it's all about, this fictional person has too short of an attention span. They leave, bored.

Two months from now: this person comes across the site again. Now the first thing they see is an intriguing, well-put-together Flash intro, using pictures, music and maybe a few words to briefly describe the site and the game it's about. They enter the site and find that it's interestingly designed and fun to check out.

But they're not convinced. They still don't know what this is about, or why they should care. But hey! There's a button right there on the front page, "What Is This About and Why Should I Care?" They click it, take no more than a few minutes to read it, and they now understand the basics of the website. They're interested, the website's design and content is enough to keep them occupied for about 15-20 minutes or so, and finally they sign up for the forum. Voila! We've got a member.

See what I mean? The active members here will continue to be at the core of this Revolution, as some of you have even been here supporting it from the very beginning. The potential of this place excites you, the community is small but tight, and you all love this game. Most people don't think like that. They want bells and whistles and flashing lights. They want good content at the core, of course, or they won't stay for long. But they're not going to go looking for that content, they want to be led to it by the hand.

And on top of all of this, a website would give so much more opportunity for organization and focus for us Revolutionaries. We'd have a way of logging all our projects and keeping track of who has accomplished what. We'd have designated areas for fan art and fan fics. We'd even have a for-real chat room. (!)

One last thing...

Another mistake that I made with my band's website. We started out going with a free service. Unfortunately, it became immediately apparent that the constraints were too much on that website, and we had so many ideas that wouldn't work under those boundaries. So we had no choice but to sign up for the Geo-Cities Pro service. Baaaaaaddd move. It's expensive and worthless. Bottom line. We had to transfer our domain to fuitadnet.com, and by that point we had already wasted a lot on GeoCities, and we had to pay extra for the transfer. Whee. >_<

At the very least, set up a PayPal account and see what happens. Set a goal, say, a year's worth of paid website service. $100. Donations will come in slowly and minimally at first, naturally, but chances are that nearing the goal will inspire more money to come in. AT THAT POINT we can determine what to do. No point in signing up for a paid service without a lot of advance money in first. But if the money comes, it would be well-spent.

And if you HAVE to go with a free service, at least do this much: get a real domain name that points to the site. Trust me, having a website like "bgerevolution.com" vs. "s6.invisionfree.com/bge2_revolution/index.php" adds a whole new dimension of professionality.

Your points about the website are well seen and I think the same. We now got people here who are really dedicated. They were able to find this forum even though it's domain name is a bit complicated, and they were interested enough to sign up. The most dedicated fans still post now. Now, we need to bring in the other fans, the ones who can't see within five minutes of looking around without anything flashy going on, what we're trying to accomplish here. For that, we need a site. I'm still not sure about whether we should get a free host or not. I still prefer a free host now, but if we get a clear plan and get everything organised and planned, I might see a paid hosting service work out. This plan is also needed before we use Paypal, people want to want to have a clear view of what they're donating for.

Now, if we can get the issue out of the way whether we actually need a website or not, we can move over to the next step. So, what does everyone think about having a website for the Revolution, which was basically the original plan for the Revolution anyway?

Brief update: I just e-mailed my friend about the possibility of designing a website, so I'll wait to hear from him. If he digs the idea, I'll have him put together a mock home-page or something, just so you can get the idea of what he's capable of. Maybe not even so much what he's capable of, but what a website could do for this place.

Okay Pey'j, thanks! Keep us informed. :welldone:

Well, I guess I might as well sign up for a credit card now. <_<

I hate Credit Cards but if I want to buy a car or a house in the future, I need good credit. So, I can donate the money and pay it back easily, which gives me good credit.

Thus in turn, it benefits me in many ways.

Plus, I want to play EVE:Online. Freedom in that game... :wub:

Anywho, I'll let you know what comes out of that. Pey'J gave some servers that looked very promising and intriguing. I might know somebody that can help us, but I got to talk to him again :lol:

So what should the first thing be? Money, Layout, Stuff?

Heck, could be in that order. Money for the website, Server service(heh heh), Layout of the webpage, stuff to put in it.

Before we get the funds, first we need a solid plan. It's best if we know where the money goes first. There's no hurry.

Yeah, no hurry (*pant pant wheeze*...whew). I tend to be a hurrier. Oh well. We've got tons of time to figure this out.

If we do end up starting plans for a website, I say we plan in this order:

1) Create a focus

Once and for all I think we all need to agree on what the purpose of this Revolution really is. Are we attracting newcomers to the game? Are we pestering Ubisoft? Both? Which is more important? Etc. That way the design of the website will be completely centered around whatever goal that is, and it will all work together.

2) Figure out the logisitics of the website

I.e. where are we hosting this, what's the domain name, who's making it, are we even going to make a website, all that razz. Once all this is figured out, then we can start talking money.

3) Design the website

This will be a project for ALL members, what goes in the website and where. Whoever's actually in charge of making the final product will use all that information to make the site.

How's that then?

Oh and I just thought of something, I don't remember this being brought up as an option: one of us using our own server. Obviously that would be a lot cheaper for the Revolution as a whole (not necessarily for the person who owns the server... :P ), although it does come with risks. Most of them revolving around whether we trust this individual with the website or not. We stuck our old website on the server of some guy we didn't know that well, and he bailed on us. Bad move. Also we'd have to worry about bandwidth. (Well, hopefully that's something we'll have to worry about... :P )

Excellent, Pey'j. That's a good schedule to follow. I hope we will ALL be able to discuss. Soon, but not too soon. Testweek coming up, you see.

I'm stickying this, for the upcoming period it's going to be the most important topic of the forum. At least, that's what I am hoping for.

i am going to put in some way out there suggestion, but would a demo of the game not be a great help for those we are trying to convince to buy BGAE and support the revolution for BGAE2.

i think that tells what we are about way better, and maybe lengthens the attention span next time they visit the site.

oh, and pey'j would you not be able to convince your friend to joint the revolution? give him the game, it would be a lot cheaper, and we would have recruited another zombie!

A link to the demo is possible, yes. We could try and get it somewhere here on the forum. At least, until we get a site. Because we do need a site if we're really going to attract visitors and convince them to join us. The demo will be for those who haven't played the game, but since we only get BG&E-fans as new members at the moment, we can't really use it yet.

Heh, sorry, but he doesn't play video games. :P I did give him a copy of the soundtrack, though, and he thinks that's pretty cool.

I’m starting to think of all the stuff we could put on a website, we could have fan art and fanfiction, and wallpapers and a link to where you can download the music etc.
..................
just so you guys know if I win the lottery I’ll finance the whole thing ;)

Yeah, a website would be very cool. A good website is that, what we really need.
And all the things, we could make.....wohooo.

I'm down with this idea. We're gonna need a vote on this one though. Maybe a new thread.

I believe the Revolution was a way to get to Ubisoft and regular gamers a like to acknowledge Beyond Good and Evil's existance and that it is a great game that should not be forgotten. Sort of a way to show our continued support in order for a sequel to be made.

I could chip in a few bucks, but Paypal is being evil to my account. I got this notice in my e-mail that said they were limiting access to my account because of an 'unauthorized credit card transaction' (which I suspect was someone sponsoring me for TotalFark- I personally have kept no money in that account for months). They gave me a link- which went to a completely different and non-functioning Geocities page. The page they listed says that is 'an outdated version of PayPal'. The case number they gave me? The site doesnt recognize it.

So I don't know what the hell is going on. Once I get that figured out, I'm good for a few bucks.

As for the website- I think the majority of the site should assume that anyone coming is already familiar with the game. Maybe the first page they see should warn them that the game's pretty story-intensive and we don't want to spoil anyone unwillingly. It would have links to two pages-

"If you've played BG&E before, click here." That goes to the main page.
"If you're a newcomer to BG&E, click here." That goes to a page on the site listing the basics about the game to get people up to speed.

As for the ads, make the most of it. Link to Amazon, eBay and Gamestop so people can track down copies of the game. Content can be largely 'whatever you have, we'll use and give you credit'. Every so often, someone's going to surface with something beyond the usual fanart, wallpapers, fanfics, etc.

Agreed, people should see how dedicated we are. I think we should make they whole design ourselves, and I'm willing to help. I'm not very good at computer art, but I've got a little skill so...
And I offer my program skills(Basic and Java) to help, I know it's not much, but you never know when you might need it ;). I'm willing to learn HTML if it's nessecary, and translations from english to Dutch shouldn't be to much of a problem :).

Which brings me to the next point, having many nationalities on this forum we should make it a website with multiple languages. I know we can make Dutch, Polish and German translations so far... :P

I know a little bit HTML and i could translate in German of course ;)

Translations is a possibility indeed.

Very good suggestion, we should definitely keep that in mind.

Links are also very important. We got a good number of links to BG&E sites and fansites. And then there's the sites where you can buy BG&E, that's also a good suggestion. A content section is CRUCIAL. Thanks to a few members here we've got awesome artwork. We can also go to the ubi.com forum and have a look. they have some amazing art there as well. Fanfics, we've got those as well. And enough to impress too. Trailers, fan-made videos perhaps. I just got two old fan-made videos from the ubi.com forum, you should check it out, they're pretty cool.

A chatbox, maybe we'll see if there's a better chatbox than the one we currently have.

A News section, kind of like the one we got at the top of the forum.

A section where everything of the game is explained. Characters, weapons, enemies, all that stuff.

What's more?

Good news!!

My friend is totally up for making up a website for us, if we wanna go for that. So I'm going to see if he can whip together a sample of what he might do, just so you can see what would come with that option. Obviously if any of us Revolutionaries could do as good of a job as he could, then we'll go with that option instead. But if my friend's design ends up being the best option, we might really want to consider spending the money.

And speaking of that, no word yet on what he might work for. I think it'll probably be a compromise between what he thinks would be a good price and what everyone here would be willing to spend on his work.

Oh, and question: what might be a good source of screenshots, game art, etc. that he could use? I'll point him to some of the official website stuff and the fanart threads here, but where else might he look?

I'll keep you posted on this!

Perfect, I'm thrilled to see what he can do. I'm really getting the feeling now that this project is taking off. It's a good feeling. About the fanart, there's of course the fanart topics here, but the ubi.com forum also has an excellent fanart topic with beautiful fanart that we don't have here. I'm sure that if we mention names with the fanart, people will be happy with it. i don't know what I'm willing to spend, i'll just wait and see how this project develops and then I'll decide how much I want to invest. It better not go by creditcard, Paypal, or else I won't be able to donate anything at all.

That's awesome! :welldone:

And the best source of screens is Google Images Searching link
Just type the game title and you have everything from game art to beta screenshots :)

Haha, um, I guess I could have thought of that. :P

we want a sequel made, first and foremost. because we believe one game is not enough to show us all the good stuff beyond good and evil has to offer.

in order to have a sequel made we need to convince the people who decide these things (ubisoft,EA, Ancel) this can be done in two ways
-improve the succes of the game, thereby making it commercially interresting to create a sequel. (risk of lowered quality)
-increase the fanbase. increasing the fanbase will increase the demand for a sequel, and it will be considered if it can be made profitable.

these two have synergy.

in order to increase the fanbase AND the succes of the game, we need more people to purchase it.

in order to do that people must
-know about the game
-like it
-be willing to pay for it.

in order to know the game one can attrackt attention
-by reviews, that people actually read.
-by ludicris and "revolution"like actions that will make people think "what is that game these guys talk about, let me check their site"
-by offering a demo, so they can judge for themselves

liking the game can only be done by the game itself, i believ that will not be a problem.

in order for people to want to pay for the game we can
-try to make an deal with ubisoft that we offer the game on our site, for a discount.
-show them where they can purchase the game for what price
-add service (by way of a supporting forum?)
-add other goodies, like devlopers notes, autographs of ancel, jade posters etc.

so we could try to
-have a demo
-be able to sell the game at a discount
-have the forums linked from the site
-have a walkthrough section
-continue monthly to write to various instances on how cool this game is
-have a movie made (...)
-hire hackers to have other sites link to ours (Disclaimer:not a serious suggestion)
-work out new ways to get peoples attention
-ask ancel if he would autograph a few copies (and maybe use them as prizes?)
-have a section "which BGAE character would you be" test, by which you can add a link to "the character" on our site, to be put in sigs (like http://www.naruto-kun.com/character+test.html )
-have a promise made by ubisoft, them when the petition/sells surpass a certain point, a sequel will be made.

thats all i can think of for now.

The thing is, we can't sell anything that is Ubi related. This is fan work of a non-profit site. If we try to sell anything with the BG&E logo on it, Ubisoft could sue us for copyright infridgment(I'm taking a guess on all of this so back me up or correct me if I'm wrong or right)


Even if the proceeds were going back to Ubi, we'd still need Ubi's permission to sell the stuff, in which case... they would if they were going to make a BG&E2 and 3 and made three billion dollars out of the name.
:wacko:

Can't complain on those ends.

Using another software program...
Or we can do a five year old home movie. It'd be funny and cute at the same time. ^_^

Shhh..don't want the feds to catch on. :unsure:

If any company in the world kept their promises they make to their consumers, most companies would be broke and we'd have Duke Nukem Forever by now.

:sinister: But I get what your saying. Good choice.

We can work out something to fit. But since you are a member(And this is to all Revolutionaries), you got to try to put something in. Help out in some way. It can be the littlest thing but that thing can just easily be a work of art to some of the Higher ups in UBI City.

Carlson and Peeters.

On topic of donations:

Who will be able to access the paypal donation money? Is there some way so several people have to agree before any funds are used? because we can’t leave it in the hands of one individual.

Hmz, I suppose I could donate something, I do internet banking so...

Anywayz for images you should visit : www.ign.com

The fanfics should be added as well(with the nessacery spoiler warnings), this shows real devotion. Because, unlike most fanart, this takes up a large ammount of time. Other people's devotion can be a reason for someone to buy the game, I bought the game because Denden was so devoted :P.

What the heck? I could have sworn I made a reply to this topic last night. >_< Oh well, trying again...

That's a darned good question that I've wondered about myself. All I know is that getting a PayPal account is standard fare for a non-profit org, so there must be some fairly easy way to do it. Somebody should check that out, methinks.

And concerning a focus for the website, I've started a topic about that here. Discuss!

I’ll look into it.

I found a website of a forum where somebody asks how to get paypal. I can't open the links somebody else sended (my pc s*cks) but maybe they are usefull
http://forums.oscommerce.com/lofiversion/i...hp/t139114.html

because of paypal


Great: "Note: You must be over 18 to sign up for a PayPal account."

<_<

So?
I have a paypal account and I'm 14 ;)

Ohoh...if they check it.... :P

They don't ^_^

thats funny considering you need a credit card.

i have an account as well, but i can not activate until i have a credit card. considering you need to be over 18 to have a credit card, they don't need to check.

why won't what the dutch call "accept giro" work (it might be the same in english, i don't know)

Okay, so just for kicks I signed the Revolution up to a PayPal account. No need to start donations or anything yet, in fact I'm still trying to figure everything out, but I just wanted to see how it works.

So the deal is, there will be one guy who's in charge of the whole account. That's me right now, although we'll need to change that, because I wouldn't be able to take that responsibility, plus I suck at finance stuff. Anybody who fancies themself as an accountant can consider themselves the Revolution treasurer.

After that, the administrator can create different levels of access for different users, so all the admins here could have access to certain parts of the account. If done right, that'll keep everyone accountable and we're not leaving all the money in the hands of one guy.

Oh, and good news! You DON'T have to have a PayPal account to give a donation. So that takes care of that barrier right there.

So...is there anybody here who think they can handle running this thing?

Well I’m always online and I’m trust worthy, but isn’t there someway so like 4 people have to agree to it because what if something happened to the person that has access to the account then our money would be frozen, Because no one could get at it (even if it is just part of it).

So there’s no way so every transaction has to have the consent of more than one person?

we can have trust.

yes it's risky, but if the trust is betrayed, you know you can not trust that person. and the loss pp is minimal.

i chose to trust.

Although I still have to look into Paypal myself, I say the responsibility of the Paypal account should lie in the hands of the admins. Don't you think that's a good idea? Pey'j, Futurefish, Phil and me. I think that's the best way to do it.

The thing I’m worried about is isn’t any of the admins stealing the money, but if someone like say a roommate somehow gained access to the account.